CBS’s Monday installment of The Late Show with Stephen Colbert featured some blue-on-blue fireworks as the eponymous host welcomed former White House Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre to discuss her new book, Independent, the merits of leaving the Democratic Party and President Joe Biden’s withdrawal from the 2024 race.
Colbert began by warning of people following KJP’s path, “Do you recommend everyone leave the party, and if so, where do they go? Because organization is how you face tyranny. Freelancing isn’t going to get anybody anything done.”
KJP insisted she is merely “trying to start a conversation” because “the two-party system is not working.”
If anyone thinks KJP’s new independent status is because of a newfound respect for centrism and moderation, she quickly proved that isn’t the case. After Colbert asked what that failure is, KJP said of the Democratic Party, “I don’t think there’s any teeth, there’s no fight, where’s the soul?… when I left the administration this year on January 20th this year I was minding my business going to the supermarket, going to pick up my kid, going to the coffee shop and people would come up to me in tears, most of them, and say to me, ‘What’s happening? Why is the Democratic leadership not fighting? What’s happening? We need more. How are we going to get out of this?'”
Colbert had a possible solution: socialism, “Let’s talk about Democrats who are getting people excited, excited, like, Bernie Sanders is getting people excited. He’s a democratic socialist. AOC, she’s a democratic socialist. Zohran Mamdani, democratic socialist. Doesn’t that say there are fundamental needs of the working class in America that are not being addressed by either party, and if they don’t change their ways, they are going to cut themselves off at the knees by toadying to special interests and corporations.”
KJP interrupted to claim Colbert was making her point because Sanders is technically an independent before adding, “The Democratic Party needs to be a big tent party, the big tent party that I loved and appreciated and felt seen in. And what’s happening—you just mentioned three people who are, you know, democratic socialists, independents, who are very much exciting people, but what’s happening with more of the leadership/Democratic Party’s side of things, they’re actually throwing people under the bus who are vulnerable and need protection.”
She further claimed, “As a black woman who has walked through the walls of the White House and been part of this party for a very long time, I believe, and this is my personal opinion, that we get forgotten and by large part the Democratic Party does not see us. And for me especially in this past year, I needed to make a statement and to make a point… Millions of people who voted in 2020 for the Biden-Harris ticket did not come out in 2024, we have to figure out why. What happened there?”
For Colbert, the answer to that question was Biden’s lousy debate performance. However, KJP asserts that the effort to push Biden out of the race was an act of betrayal.
Colbert claimed, “I think all of that, everything you’re saying, I cannot fault the factual basis of what you’re saying or your feelings about it, but what happened was the debate performance. Everything is downstream of that.”
For her part, KJP claimed, “And no one is saying the debate performance wasn’t shocking, wasn’t a disappointment, no one is saying that—”
Colbert objected to the “light” description of the debate, “It was harrowing. Okay, look, listen we’re never going to agree on this other than the fact that I’m glad you came here tonight and they’re telling me to wrap over there. Would you like to say one more thing before we go?”
KJP was able to end on a note of agreement about democracy itself being at risk, “And I appreciate that, but I do think that this is a moment, really truly, what this book is about, for me, is the moment that we’re in, and we have to continue to fight for our democracy and we have to do that every day. One thing that the president used to say is we are a very—this is an experiment, our democracy, this is an experiment we are in and if we do not fight for it every day, we will lose it, and that is my concern. That is my concern.”
Even The Late Show has a political debate; both participants end up being wrong. Colbert omits Harris’s flaws in blaming everything on Biden, KJP continues to insist Biden was fine, and both are cozying up with the party’s far-left crazies.
Here is a transcript for the October 20-taped show:
CBS The Late Show with Stephen Colbert
10/21/2025
12:25 AM ET
STEPHEN COLBERT: Do you recommend everyone leave the party, and if so, where do they go? Because organization is how you face tyranny. Freelancing isn’t going to get anybody anything done.
KARINE JEAN-PIERRE: So, here’s the thing: I’m not telling everybody to be an independent. I’m telling—I’m trying to start a conversation. I’m not saying that we need a third party. I am saying that right now the two-party system is not working.
COLBERT A lot of people are dissatisfied, a lot of Democrats or people who identify as Democrats are dissatisfied—
JEAN-PIERRE: Exactly. Exactly
COLBERT: — with the party right now. Where do you think the major failure is, what are they not doing?
JEAN-PIERRE: Well, right now, in this moment, which is why I actually wrote the book, to give people a road map, I don’t think there’s any teeth, there’s no fight, where’s the soul?
When I left the Democratic Party — the Democratic Party — when I left the administration this year on January 20th this year I was minding my business going to the supermarket, going to pick up my kid, going to the coffee shop and people would come up to me in tears, most of them, and say to me, “What’s happening? Why is the Democratic leadership not fighting? What’s happening? We need more. How are we going to get out of this?”
And I talk about that in the book and that’s what created, for me, an opportunity, as a private citizen now, to say okay, how do we focus on where we are today, how do we move forward, and what’s a road map that people can follow to get engaged. I think it’s really important to get involved and to get engaged and that’s what this book is about.
COLBERT: Let’s talk about Democrats who are getting people excited, excited, like, Bernie Sanders is getting people excited—
JEAN-PIERRE: He’s not—
COLBERT: He’s a democratic socialist.
JEAN-PIERRE: I was about to say. He’s an independent.
COLBERT: AOC, she’s a democratic socialist. Zohran Mamdani, democratic socialist. Doesn’t that say there are fundamental needs of the working class in America that are not being addressed by either party, and if they don’t change their ways, they are going to cut themselves off at the knees by toadying to special interests and corporations—
JEAN-PIERRE: I totally agree.
COLBERT: Both—okay, go ahead, you’re agreeing.
JEAN-PIERRE: You’re speaking my language.
COLBERT: I accept your apology.
JEAN-PIERRE: No, no, no, here’s the thing. The Democratic Party needs to be a big tent party, the big tent party that I loved and appreciated and felt seen in. And what’s happening—you just mentioned three people who are, you know, democratic socialists, independents, who are very much exciting people, but what’s happening with more of the leadership/Democratic Party’s side of things, they’re actually throwing people under the bus who are vulnerable and need protection.
As a black woman who has walked through the walls of the White House and been part of this party for a very long time, I believe, and this is my personal opinion, that we get forgotten and by large part the Democratic Party does not see us. And for me especially in this past year, I needed to make a statement and to make a point.
I am trying to start a conversation. People are not going to agree with me, people are going to disagree, people are going to want and I’m hoping they are going to want a conversation with me about my decision, because we are under attack. Our democracy is slipping through our fingers, and this is the time—this is the time I believe we have conversations like this because we have to do better. Millions of people who voted in 2020 for the Biden-Harris ticket did not come out in 2024, we have to figure out why. What happened there?
…
COLBERT: I don’t think anyone questioned his heart or his policy but it takes more than that to be the president of the United States and in a moment of great pressure on stage, we saw someone shock us and worry us and nothing could assuage that worry. I don’t think it was necessarily a betrayal of Joe Biden as other people saying, “we don’t think we were shown the Joe Biden you saw.”
JEAN-PIERRE: I disagree, I saw every day, a really ugly assault on someone who had 50-plus years of experience and who, again, objectively had done a good job as president of the United States and it was heartbreaking to see that type of behavior.
COLBERT: I think all of that, everything you’re saying, I cannot fault the factual basis of what you’re saying or your feelings about it, but what happened was the debate performance. Everything is downstream of that.
JEAN-PIERRE: And no one is saying the debate performance wasn’t shocking, wasn’t a disappointment, no one is saying that—
COLBERT: Disappointment to such a light term.
JEAN-PIERRE: I use your words! I use your words!
COLBERT: It was harrowing. Okay, look, listen we’re never going to agree on this other than the fact that I’m glad you came here tonight and they’re telling me to wrap over there. Would you like to say one more thing before we go?
JEAN-PIERRE: And I appreciate that, but I do think that this is a moment, really truly, what this book is about, for me, is the moment that we’re in, and we have to continue to fight for our democracy and we have to do that every day. One thing that the president used to say is we are a very—this is an experiment, our democracy, this is an experiment we are in, and if we do not fight for it every day, we will lose it, and that is my concern. That is my concern.
COLBERT: This is true.
