On CNN, Dana Bash demonstrated what passes for an “interview” of prominent elected liberal on State of the Union. Her chat with Vermont socialist Bernie Sanders had all the tone and gravitas of a celebrity interview, right down to the theater venue most commonly associated with movie stars.
In the latest episode of an ongoing genre, Bash followed Sanders to West Virginia, his most recent stop on his traveling soapbox Fighting Oligarchy tour. There were the obligatory mentions of Sanders speaking before a packed venue in a red state (albeit no mention of his bourgeoisie travel arrangements and no utterance of the word “socialism”).
The vast bulk of the interview was devoted to the advocacy for more government intervention in healthcare and other sectors of the economy, with Bash serving in the role of facilitator rather than interviewer. Consider this exchange on why Kamala Harris lost the election:
“Ouch.” What a powerful follow-up. After more socialist advocacy Bash turned to redistricting, where she let Sanders simultaneously denounce and advocate for retaliatory Democrat redistricting:
After an exchange on Russia, Bash turned to the conflict in Gaza. Sanders, with little pushback, absolved Hamas of any responsibility for the ongoing hunger crisis:
BASH: Would you say Hamas has some culpability in people starving?
SANDERS: No.
(CROSSTALK)
BASH: Why, when they spent so much money building tunnels and everything under…
SANDERS: So, right now, right now, what is going on is a slaughter, all right? And right now, Israel is — with few exceptions, is in control of the military situation. It is not Hamas. Hamas is a terrible terrorist organization, all right? And I certainly hope they have no future in a new Gaza or Palestine. But the fault right now is 100 percent on a Netanyahu government, who has waged an all-out war, committed just — I mean, it is war crimes. They are war crimes. Netanyahu is a war criminal, just as the guy who is head of Hamas is a war criminal. And the United States taxpayers should not be funding Netanyahu.
Bash would correct by asking Sanders whether he believes in the existence of the State of Israel, allowing him to retreat to a more defensible position (he said yes).
The interview, with the word “interview” here doing a herculean lift, would end with an exchange on whether Sanders intends to run in 2028, which he at least appears to shoot down due to age considerations:
BASH: Something that I’m sure you have seen, a Gallup poll. Did you see this Gallup poll?
SANDERS: Yes.
BASH: And what the Gallup poll found was that you are one of the most widely admired Americans. And I believe you’re only second to the pope.
(LAUGHTER)
SANDERS: You want me to declare my candidacy for pope? Is that what you’re asking?
BASH: I don’t think — I don’t think that you’re eligible, for a lot of reasons.
SANDERS: All right. Then I won’t do that.
BASH: I watched you tonight. I have watched you for a very, very long time. You’re obviously still full of vigor and intensity for the things that you’re passionate about and have been for decades. Is there another presidential run in you?
SANDERS: Oh, God. Let’s not worry about that. I am going to be 84 years of age next month, as a matter of fact. So I think that speaks for itself.
Bash would press Sanders for names of successors, but he refused to give any. Thus Sanders escapes the interview without any mention of Zohran Mamdani or Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez or their proposals.
This could only be described as an “interview” in the celebrity sense: full of fluff and where the interviewer is in awe of the subject. Sycophantic, and yet par for the legacy media and the socialists they love and cast in soft lights.
Click “expand” to view the full transcript of the aforementioned interview as aired on CNN State of the Union on Sunday, August 10th, 2025:
DANA BASH: Welcome back to State of the Union. A key progressive voice in the reddest of red states. Senator Bernie Sanders is spending this congressional recess back on what he calls his Fighting Oligarchy Tour, trying to help Democrats find their footing among working-class Americans and reclaim power next November. I hit the road with the senator in West Virginia as he took his message to the heart of Trump country.
It’s good to be with you here. We’re in Wheeling, West Virginia. And it’s so fascinating that this is part of what you call your Fighting the Oligarchy Tour, because this is a state where Donald Trump got 70 percent.
BERNIE SANDERS: Really?
BASH: Seventy percent.
SANDERS: Wouldn’t have known that tonight.
BASH: Well, yes. And this was an auditorium that was packed. It was at capacity. Still, what makes you think that your message tonight is going to resonate in such a red state?
SANDERS: Well, among other things, when I ran for president, I think here in West Virginia we won every single county. Look, this is a working-class state. It’s one of the poorest states in the country. People are hurting. And they want candidates to come before them to stand up for the working class and take on the oligarchs, who have so much economic and political power. So I think- I think the message will resonate here. I think it will resonate in many red states throughout the country, because, at the end of the day, 60 percent of our people are living paycheck to paycheck. They don’t want to see tax breaks for billionaires. They don’t want to see the rich get richer. They want health care as a human right. They want to raise the minimum wage to a living wage. They want to be able to live in housing that they can afford.
BASH: One of the things that you talked about here, as you have been talking about since even before it passed, is what the president calls his Big Beautiful Bill, cuts to Medicaid, other programs; 25 percent of West Virginians receive Medicaid; 15 percent rely on food stamps. And yet, as I mentioned, West Virginians overwhelmingly voted for Donald Trump. How do you square that circle?
SANDERS: Well, that’s a longer story that has to do with the failure of the Democratic Party in general to speak to the needs of the working class. This used to be, decades ago, one of the strongest Democratic states in the country. Now it’s a strong Republican state, because I think, in many ways, the Democratic Party has turned its back on what was its space. But I think our job and what — the reason I’m here and the reason we go to red states all over the country is to make it clear that there are some of us who are prepared to stand up for the working class. And if we become — if we stand together, if we’re united, if we don’t let Trump divide us up, there’s no stopping what we can do as a nation in terms of improving life for ordinary people.
BASH: You said the Democratic Party has turned its back on the working class. You said something pretty tough when you were speaking to this crowd about Kamala Harris.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDERS: One of the reasons, in my view, that Kamala Harris lost the election is, she had too many billionaires telling her not to speak up for the working class of this country. (CHEERING)
BASH: Ouch.
SANDERS: Well, no, I think — I mean, I don’t think that that’s — I like Kamala. She’s a friend of mine. But she was — her core consultants were heavily influenced by very wealthy people. How do you run for president and not develop a strong agenda which speaks to the economic crises facing working families? You have more income and wealth inequality today than we have ever had. You have 60 percent of our people living paycheck to paycheck. You have got a health care system which is broken and dysfunctional. And despite spending so much, we’re the only major country not to guarantee health care to all people. How do you not talk about those issues?
BASH: She talked about affordability.
SANDERS: Well, but in a vague — I don’t want to rehash that campaign.
BASH: Yes.
SANDERS: But I think the clue to Democratic victories is to understand that you have got to stand unequivocally with the working class of this country. You need an agenda that speaks to the needs of working people. Is it a radical idea that we join every other major country on Earth and guarantee health care to all people? Is that a radical idea? You tell me how many people are talking about that. Is it a radical idea to say that we have got to raise the minimum wage to $17 an hour? Is it a radical idea to say that, in the midst of a competitive global economy, we need to make sure we have the best-educated work force, that all of our kids, regardless of income, should be able to get a higher education? These ideas exist all over the world. They don’t exist in America. And they don’t exist because of the power of the oligarchs economically and politically. All right, let’s be clear. In my view, the current political system in the United States of America is broken and corrupt. Does anybody think that it makes any sense at all that Elon Musk can spend $270 million to elect Trump as president and then become the most important person in government? Billionaires should not be able to buy elections. And, by the way, that’s not just a progressive perspective. Conservatives understand that too.
BASH: What makes you so sure that the solution that you’re offering, which is a more assertive federal government, is something that is going to fly in places where people have been voting in recent years Republican and have an inherent distrust of government?
SANDERS: Well, they should — and they should have a distrust, for a number of reasons. The government is too bureaucratic and not responsive. But — and let me tell you what I’m sure you already know, is that, if you look at the polling — and I asked the people here today. You heard me ask.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDERS: Anybody here think that the American health care system is vaguely effective?
AUDIENCE: No!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANDERS: Nobody in America thinks it’s working. We spend twice as much as other countries, 85 million uninsured or underinsured; 60,000 people die a year because they can’t get to a doctor on time. Do you think that, in America, with all of our genius, all of our capabilities, we, spending so much money, cannot provide a high- quality system that guarantees health care to all people? And do you think people here don’t know that? They know. They know we can do it. Throughout Europe and other countries, you don’t have to leave college $50,000, $100,000 in debt, or a half-a-million in debt if you go to medical school. That makes zero sense. But, look, let’s be clear on the message of tonight and what I will continue to give. You have a government today that is run by the wealthiest people in this country. They are extremely greedy people. They want it all. And we have got to stand up to them. Unfortunately, for many decades, that has not been the Democratic Party, and that has got to change.
BASH: I’m sure you have heard about some Democrats who are talking about embracing the so-called abundance movement…
(LAUGHTER)
SANDERS: Yes.
BASH: … the idea that liberal politicians have created too much regulatory red tape and it stops government from getting anything done. I spoke recently to Democratic Congressman Ritchie Torres, who said that Democrats shouldn’t be the party of more government, but the party of better, cheaper and faster government. What do you make of that idea?
SANDERS: Well, I think it is clear. Look, I deal with bureaucracy every day at the federal level, the state level, at the local level. It’s absolutely true. To build a house, to do this, do that, you have to go through all kinds of things. To apply for Medicaid, you have got to fill out 87 forms. Dealing with your insurance companies, you have got to fill out a million forms. We live in a world which is much, much too complicated. So, if the goal is to make it sure that, within environmental safeguards, we can move forward much faster, the answer is yes. But that is not the fundamental problem facing America. The fundamental problem facing America is that you have got a handful of oligarchs who have enormous wealth, enormous economic power, enormous political power, and they want even more. That is the fundamental issue. Should we make government more efficient? Absolutely.
BASH: Just a couple of political questions.
President Trump suggested this week that the vice president, JD Vance, is probably the favorite to take over the so-called MAGA movement. He’s from this kind of area. I mean, he’s from Appalachia. He probably has appeal in red states and working-class areas. Do you think him being an heir to the MAGA movement is something that should be concerning to Democrats trying to defeat MAGA?
SANDERS: Not my thing at all. I really don’t know. I don’t particularly care. I think he has nothing really — neither Trump nor he, nor the Republicans of today have anything of significance to say to working-class people. What they’re trying to do is to divide us up. Oh, you’re a Muslim. You’re undocumented. You’re black. You’re gay. Let’s divide everybody up so that rich can become richer. Our job is to bring people together. Doesn’t matter to me who heads the Republican Party.
BASH: Redistricting.
SANDERS: Yes.
BASH: What’s going on in Texas. Republicans are pushing to redraw the state’s map to try to bolster the House GOP majority, eliminating Democratic seats. I know you have been a very — a longtime opponent of gerrymandering with redistricting, but you also say the Democratic governors should — quote — “fight fire with fire” and redraw…
SANDERS: Look, there are a couple of things here.
BASH: Yes.
SANDERS: What is quite incredible, I mean, see, we are taking Trumpism kind of as normal. Trump is the one who came up with the idea. He says, hmm, let’s see. Texas, I think we can get five more seats. Do it. Oh, yes. Yes, sir. You’re the great leader. We will do it. And they’re off and trying to do it. So everybody knows what’s going on. It is undemocratic. It is outrageous.
BASH: And yet you think Democratic governors should try to push back and do the same thing?
SANDERS: I think it’s sad. I think they have no choice. I mean, what Trump is trying to do, he understands that there is a good chance that the Republicans will lose control over the House, I would hope the Senate as well. That will be a tougher fight. So he’s trying to make — in his authoritarian way, say, hey, I don’t want to lose elections. Let’s rig the system. Give me five more votes in Texas to me, maybe some other states. So what should Democrats do, sit back and say, oh, gee, Trump is doing this terrible — we can’t do anything, let them win the election, when they should? So Democrats have got to fight back. I think it’s pathetic, but I think that’s what they have got to do.
BASH: Even though you have said that gerrymandering undermines the political process?
SANDERS: It does. Of course it does.
BASH: Yes.
SANDERS: It’s — what we have now is a terrible situation, and Republicans are making it worse. But what do you do? If Republicans are doing it, you have to respond. It’s pathetic, but I think you have to respond.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: Up next, much more of my interview with Senator Bernie Sanders, including Bernie 2028? Plus, the FBI is now getting involved as Texas Republicans escalate their redistricting fight. Our panel weighs in ahead.
BASH: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION. As we enter a critical week on the foreign policy front for the White House, I asked Senator Bernie Sanders about President Trump’s upcoming meeting with Vladimir Putin, as well as what he thinks the future might hold for him and his movement.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: The president announced that Vladimir Putin is going to come to Alaska on August 15th and they’re going to meet. First, what’s your reaction to Vladimir Putin coming onto American soil for this meeting?
SANDERS: Vladimir Putin is a really awful guy. When you talk about oligarchs, Putin is one of the richest guys in the world, running a kleptocratic society, and then he invaded Ukraine with incredible destruction. I mean, tens and tens and tens of thousands of Russian soldiers have been killed. People in Ukraine are suffering terribly because this guy wanted to start the most — the largest war since World War II in Europe. So, I’m not a great fan of Vladimir Putin.
BASH: What about the idea of this summit or meeting?
SANDERS: Look, we — I — you know, it’s — the bloodshed and the suffering is terrible. If, in fact, an agreement can be negotiated which does not compromise what the Ukrainians feel that they need, I think that’s a positive step forward. We all want to see an end to the bloodshed.
BASH: Do you trust a Donald Trump-Vladimir Putin deal?
SANDERS: Well, it’s not — it can’t be Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump. The people of Ukraine obviously have got to have a significant say. It is their country. So, if they feel, the people of Ukraine feel that the agreement is positive, that’s good. If not, that’s another story.
BASH: Let’s talk about Israel.
SANDERS: Yes.
BASH: Israel’s Security Cabinet approved a plan to take control of Gaza City. Your response?
SANDERS: Look, Israel had a right, of course, to defend itself from the terrible terrorist attack from Hamas, but what they have done since then is gone to war against the entire Palestinian people. There are now some 60,000 who are dead, most of whom are women, children, and the elderly. You have got 18,000 kids, kids who have been killed, 3,000 children who have had one or another limb amputated. And now, on top of all of the destruction, human destruction, incredible destruction of their housing, of their schools, of their universities, of their health care systems, on top of all that, what Netanyahu does is impose a blockade preventing food to come in, and people are starving to death. So I think the good news is that we are making some progress. I offered a resolution, as you know, a couple of weeks ago. We got 27 votes from Democrats to stop military weapons going to Gaza, no Republican support. But you know what I think? I think Republicans at the grassroots level are also catching on that it is not a great idea to provide billions to a government that starves children.
BASH: Would you say Hamas has some culpability in people starving?
SANDERS: No.
(CROSSTALK)
BASH: Why, when they spent so much money building tunnels and everything under…
SANDERS: So, right now, right now, what is going on is a slaughter, all right? And right now, Israel is — with few exceptions, is in control of the military situation. It is not Hamas. Hamas is a terrible terrorist organization, all right? And I certainly hope they have no future in a new Gaza or Palestine. But the fault right now is 100 percent on a Netanyahu government, who has waged an all-out war, committed just — I mean, it is war crimes. They are war crimes. Netanyahu is a war criminal, just as the guy who is head of Hamas is a war criminal. And the United States taxpayers should not be funding Netanyahu.
BASH: You have been critical of Benjamin Netanyahu for a very long time. But I want to ask you just about something that sometimes gets lost, especially right now, when this debate is so emotional and so raw, which is — especially on the left — which is, take Netanyahu out of this. Do you believe in the notion of Israel as a Jewish state?
SANDERS: Yes, I do, for a lot of reasons. But, right now, what Netanyahu has done, what the Israeli government has done is become almost a pariah state. And I fear very much that Israel now is looked in very, very unfavorable light by people all over the world, all over the world, not just in the United States.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDERS: I was told that West Virginia was a conservative state. Somebody got it wrong.
(CHEERING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Something that I’m sure you have seen, a Gallup poll. Did you see this Gallup poll?
SANDERS: Yes.
BASH: And what the Gallup poll found was that you are one of the most widely admired Americans. And I believe you’re only second to the pope.
(LAUGHTER)
SANDERS: You want me to declare my candidacy for pope? Is that what you’re asking?
BASH: I don’t think — I don’t think that you’re eligible, for a lot of reasons.
SANDERS: All right. Then I won’t do that.
BASH: I watched you tonight. I have watched you for a very, very long time. You’re obviously still full of vigor and intensity for the things that you’re passionate about and have been for decades. Is there another presidential run in you?
SANDERS: Oh, God. Let’s not worry about that. I am going to be 84 years of age next month, as a matter of fact. So I think that speaks for itself. But, right now, what is more important, in my view — and I want to see, obviously, the most progressive candidate that we can have — is to rally the grassroots of America. A moment ago, you asked me about West Virginia and why people vote for Donald Trump. Our job is to turn that around. Our job is to educate and organize and give people, working-class people, an agenda which understands that, in the richest country in the history of the world, we can, in fact, provide a decent standard of living for all of our people.
BASH: But, Senator, you know better than I that you could have a very hungry and energized base with an idea of what they want, but if they don’t find leadership or find the person that can articulate that, it doesn’t change.
SANDERS: Well, you’re asking a complicated issue. I think strong grassroots movements will bring forth the appropriate leadership. I think, when people give up on the political process, when you have a handful of billionaires deciding who will run, which is the case right now…
BASH: Are there people out there who will — that you feel comfortable and confident will take up the Bernie Sanders mantle and run in 2028?
SANDERS: Well, that’s not the Bernie Sanders — will they stand up and fight for economic and social and racial justice? Absolutely. There are some great young people.
BASH: Want to name names?
SANDERS: No.
(LAUGHTER)
BASH: Thank you so much.
SANDERS: Thank you.
BASH: It’s nice to see you here.
SANDERS: OK.
BASH: And our thanks to the Capitol Theatre, the beautiful Capitol Theatre, in Wheeling, West Virginia, for hosting us.
